The StewardsWeb Genealogy Blog

Pietro Ceasar Alberto (false) assumptions

2008-08-10T18:53:00.004-04:00

A while back my mom said that we may have some Italian ancestors. A few weeks ago I decided to look into this a little more and reviewed the GEDCOM that she sent me. Sure enough, it said that Pietro Ceasar Alberto was an Italian merchant from Italy. Here's how he fits into my family line:
Pietro Cesare Alberto married Judith Jan Menjie on 24 Aug 1642 at the Dutch Reform Church in New York City.
son John Albertis (b. 30 Aug 1643 in NYC) married Elizabeth Scudder in 1666 in NYC.
daughter Elizabeth Albertis (b. 1669 in Hempstead, Nassau Co, NY) married Doctor John Stewart on 14 Jan 1688/1689.
son David Stewart (b. 1680 in NYC, NY) married Margaret McKinney about 1710 in Sussex Co, Delaware.
son Samuel Stewart (b. between 1700 & 1711 in Sussex Co, DE) married Lydia Harrison around 1724.
son Joseph Stewart (b. 1740 in Yadkin Co, NC) married Sarah Gilbert in 1760 in North Carolina.
son Jesse Stewart (b. 5 July 1790 in Yadkin Co, NC) married Jemima West around 1812 in North Carolina.
son Preston Stewart (b. 12 July 1815 in White or Overton Co, TN) married Nancy Jane Brown 10 May 1835 in Jackson, TN.
daughter Sally Ann Stewart (b. 22 Aug 1839) married William Carroll Mahan on 10 Dec. 1858.
son Anson Lafayette Mahan (b. 16 June 1865 in Baxter, Putnam Co, TN) married Celia Paulina Judd on 15 April 1905.
son Clarence Garrett Mahan (b. 30 July 1906 in Cookeville, Putnam Co, TN) married Hattie Mae Spears on 20 Dec. 1925 in Cookeville, Putnam Co, TN). These are my grandparents, both deceased.

So a few weeks ago as I was checking out the Italian connection I did a Google search on Pietro and found some interesting things very quickly. Apparently a lot of people think (erroneously) that he was the son of Andrea Alberti (the father) and Veronica Cremona. Many people seem to also think that "Lady Veronica" was a member of the Medici family, which I think is also a fabrication. Search for her and you should be able to find some replies on web boards that also say this. I sent an email to someone who posted to one of the web boards and here is a copy of our correspondence about these errors.

Email to Helen W. on 7/12/08:
"I found your email on an old Ancestry message board regarding Andrea Alberti and Veronica Cremona. In this particular posting you wrote, "They had at least nine children, of whom only two survived childhood: Francesco, baptized Nov. 12, 1602, died in 1681, and Giulio Cesare, baptized June 10, 1608." In a quick review of several websites I always see Pietro listed as the first name instead of Giulio. Have you come across this that maybe he changed his name to Pietro upon leaving Venice for New York? In one of your postings I think you wrote that you had reviewed some source documents, so I'm guessing Giulio is what was listed. Is that correct? Do you think it would be safe to say Giulio and Pietro are the same person?"

Her reply:
"Pietro Cesare Alberti was not the son of Andrea Alberti and Veronica Cremona. This is a fiction invented by an unscrupulous geneaologist at the beginning of this century.

Giulio Cesare Alberti had a long career in the Venetian secretarial service, like his father. He served as secretary to the ambassador to Constantinople during the 1640's, became secretary to the Council of Ten (the second highest post a non-noble could achieve in Venice), never married, and died fabulously wealthy in Venice in 1686. I have transcribed and translated his will, and examined his letters to Venice from Constantinople.

Pietro Alberti is a mystery. My husband and (both professional historians) have tried to track him down for three years. Since he went by the nickname of "Malamoc", we assume he was a sailor from the island of Malamocco, near Venice. But there is no Pietro Alberti in the birth records to match your ancestor. There are two possibilities - either he was illegitimate, and for some reason was not registered in the parish records, or he was born somewhere else and moved to Malamocco before leaving for Holland.

The name itself 'Pietro Cesare" is suspicious. It never occurs in Venice, either among the nobility or the lower class. We suspect that he may have been born with the name Alberto, or even Pietro Alberto, (surname unknown), and changed it when he left Venice. Since he converted to Protestantism in Holland, he may have had heretical leanings that forced him to leave Venice and change his name. All of this is pure speculation, however. There is no way to track it down. "
----

Helen also mentioned that Lady Veronica Cremona's father was a doctor, in Italian "medico" so someone decided to say she was a Medici! Also, as I was looking for info on Pietro it appears that he is believed to be the first Italian immigrant to the new world (or at least NYC) so that's pretty interesting.

Blog Activity

2007-10-27T23:30:00.002-04:00

As you can tell, I've not posted here for quite a while. After a lot of personal activity/research last fall (2006) I've done less and less as time has gone on. Now that I'm in school I have even less time available for genealogy but I'll come back to this at some point in the future! If you have any questions go ahead and email me at schlagzeuger.at.stewardsweb.net and I'll do my best to help out.

"Jared's Genealogy Map"

2007-04-22T23:45:00.000-04:00

I have created a Google map showing placemarkers for John Lollar's home and a few other things. Please let me know what you think. Over time I will add more items as I identify more ancestral places.

Migration and marriage patterns

2007-02-11T13:24:00.000-05:00

I'm beginning to think that the Lollar, Patillo and Perkins families really were close since there are several marriages between these three families. My records show:
Robert Biggan Perkins (b 1736) married Elizabeth Lollar (b abt 1740)
Littleton Patillo (b 1750) married Elizabeth Perkins (b abt 1765)
John Lollar (b 1779) married Susannah Patillo (b 1778)
Reuben Perkins (b 1783) married Elizabeth Patillo
Corder Lollar (b 1820) married Mary Caroline Patillo (b 1820)
James F. Patillo married Mary Betsy Lollar (b 1827)

Elizabeth Perkins was Robert Biggan Perkins' daughter; Susannah was Littleton Patillo's daughter; Mary Betsy and Corder were John Lollar's children; Reuben was Robert Biggan Perkins' grandson. The relationships built between these families lasted over 100 years! The mystery about John Lollar may be solved by starting with the Robert Biggan Perkins and Elizabeth Lollar connections.

Many people seem to have records that John Lollar and several of his children were born in Buchanan (town) in Granville, NC. Sometime between 1687 and 1713 the Perkinses moved from Baltimore, MD to Lincoln Co. NC. The earliest Lollar info I could find was Elizabeth born about 1740 in Burke Co., NC and she married Robert Biggan Perkins in 1759 in Lincoln Co, NC. For Patillos, I have John Patillo (Littleton's father) being born in 1722 "of" Lincoln Co, NC. But I still cannot find any connection to Granville Co in any of this data. Lincoln and Burke counties are in the western part of NC. Granville County borders Virginia and is northeast about 180 miles.

John Lollar and 1820 census

2006-09-20T23:17:00.001-04:00

Here are some notes and things I've gleaned from the info that I have of John Lollar. This was taken from the 1820 White Co, TN census.

John Lauler’s family:
Age on census | years | actual person (guess) | Age
male 26-45 | 1775-1794 | John, b 1779 | 41
female 26-45 | 1775-1794 | Nancy, b 1794 | 26
male 16-26 | 1794-1804 | ??
female 16-26 | 1794-1804 | ??
male 10-16 | 1804-1810 | Levi, b 1807 | 13
male 10-16 | 1804-1810 | Isaac, b 1809 | 11
female under 10 | 1811-1820 | Elizabeth/Sally/Susanna?
female under 10 | 1811-1820 | Elizabeth/Sally/Susanna?
male under 10 | 1811-1820 | Corder b 1820 | under 1
Who are the two missing children aged 16-26? Could they have been Nancy’s siblings? Do we have wrong birth dates and could the girl be Elizabeth/Sally/Susanna? Why do I have three females under 10 but the census listed only two? These items and dates need to be verified. What if John and Susanna Patillo actually got married earlier, around 1800? They then could have had the two children 16-26 years old on this census. Maybe dates for Elizabeth/Sally/Susanna are wrong and one of them was born in the 1794-1804 period.

For more notes and thoughts on the White County censuses I have added a link to the right.

Were John and Thomas Lollar brothers?

2006-09-16T23:31:00.000-04:00

Thomas Lollar (b. abt 1784) first shows up in White Co, TN in the 1818 Tax list: "Lawler, Thomas, 1wp, 48 acres Calf Killer." John Lollar (b. 11 July 1779) and Thomas both show up in the 1820 White Co, TN census and are listed in each one through the 1960 census. In the 1821 tax list John's listing is "Lollar, John, 1wp, 183 acres Town Creek ." The 1860 census shows John Loller living in District 7 with the nearest post office in New Ark (does the name of this area exist any more?). It shows Thomas Loller living in District 13 with the nearest post office in Clarkstown.

I'm pretty sure that Town Creek is somewhere on/near Ditty Road off of Burgess Falls Road in Putnam County but I'm not sure of where Calf Killer is though I've heard of it before. (I lived in Cookeville for about 10-12 years.) I was doing some searching on Google maps one day and actually found both a Town Creek Road and an area called Calfkiller. Just type in "Sparta, Tennessee" click to zoom in closer once, and follow highway 84 to the northeast. This is labeled as Calfkiller Hwy and right where it intersects with Mill Creek Road is Calfkiller. Was this the area where Thomas lived? On the map go straight west from Calfkiller and you'll see Ditty at the intersection of Ditty Road and 135 (Burgess Falls Rd). Zoom in once more and you'll see Town Creek road so I'm assuming this is the Town Creek area. My dad showed me where the John and Isaac Lollar cabin was (the pictures are on this website) and I can't remember now but I'm pretty sure it was right off of Ditty Road somewhere in this area. The distance from Calf Killer to Ditty is about 15 miles "as the crow flies" so following the roads would make this distance much further.

So, if John and Thomas were brothers why didn't they live near each other? I'm pretty sure Thomas and his wife Jane are not buried in the Perkins Cemetery but John, Nancy and more Lollars and some Perkinses are. Obviously it's not that they couldn't be brothers, it just doesn't make sense that they didn't live very close to each other. If they were, did something happen between the two of them or did Thomas just live in Calfkiller to be near Jane's family? (I don't know anything about Jane so that's a complete guess.)

John Lollar – no "J"

2006-09-14T23:26:00.000-04:00

I recently received some info in an email that makes complete sense
to me: John J. Lollar (b 1779) is actually John Lollar with no J for
the middle name. The "John J" most likely stemmed from confusing John
Jefferson Lollar (b 1846) with the aforementioned 1779 John Lollar.
John Jefferson married Leoma/Omie Burgess and many people
state that the 1779 John Lollar married Omie Burgess. Unfortunately, I've
even seem some people's research showing the 1779 John as John
Jefferson Lollar.

Take the White Co, TN census records and tax list as an example of
why not to use the middle initial J; John was listed as the head of
household in these ways:
1820 census: John Lauler
1821 White Co tax list: John Lollar owned 183 acres in Town Creek
1830 census: John Lollar
1840 census: John Loller
1860 census: John Loller

Why I'm starting a genealogy blog.

2006-09-12T23:57:00.000-04:00

There is really not a lot of information on the internet about the Lollar family that is very cohesive. I guess that's just how the internet is set up. Besides people publishing their family genealogies that include Lollars there is not much other info that brings it all together. That is one thing that I hope to accomplish on my website and also with this blog. I'd like to be able to make my research progress available to anyone that is researching this family line and hopefully it will help you as well.

I have found several websites that list Isaac Lollar (b. 1710) as a common ancestor but most people in the descendants follow only one line. One thing I hope to do is to consolidate that information and add it to my family tree in order to aid anyone following those lines, regardless if they are my direct family line or not.

However, probably my main goal is to figure out the mystery behind John Lollar (b. 11 July 1779 in Buchanan, Granville Co, North Carolina) and how he is connected to the Isaac Lollar line. So far I can't tell that anyone has connected him with that line but I'm convinced he is somehow. The biggest reason is that Isaac Lollar's line has lots of Perkinses mingled in and John evidently lived right near the Perkins families since he and his wife Nancy are both buried in the Perkins Cemetery.

Originally this post said it was a test post but I just changed it tonight (9/16/06) to make it more of an introduction blog. I probably won't modify past blogs unless there is some sort of gross error.

In the words of Langston Hughes, "we march!"